Insure TV Masterclass: navigating the new insurance frontier

Jenny Ellis: Hello and welcome to Insure TV’s Masterclass on Commercial Lines with me, Jenny Ellis. Well, in today’s fast paced and increasingly complex environment, businesses and brokers alike are navigating a landscape that’s shaped by emerging risks, evolving expectations and transformative technologies. So, with me today I have an expert panel. So, let me introduce them to you, we have Rebecca Gambrell, Managing Director, SME & Delegated Authorities, Aviva; Justin Linney, Head of Risk Management UK Commercial, Aviva Risk Management Solutions; Brett Sainty, Chief Executive Officer, BLW Insurance Brokers Ltd; and Ashleigh Gwilliam, Director of Insurance, nCino.

So to all of you welcome to the studio. Now, Ashleigh, I want to come to you first, and what would you say are the main disruptors that are shaping the insurance landscape today?

Ashleigh Gwilliam: Thanks Jenny. I think there’s quite a few things that are going on, and I think, as the world’s evolving, obviously the economy’s been very difficult recently for a lot of people and things are definitely changing, but I think it’s the way that we handle insurance that’s changing. Rather than it being that annual moment in time, that one-off snapshot, it’s becoming that more real time insight, that understanding what’s going on on a day-to-day basis in a company and actually providing - I think the demands of customers are changing to wanting more of, I mean we’ve always been about a trusted adviser advice service, but it’s definitely becoming more prevalent that people want that support. And I think being able to give that analytical model and those future predictions on how a business is going is becoming ever more prevalent.

There was a study by Deloitte that said 87% of insurance executives now see AI and predictive analytics of being the future of how things are going. And absorbing all that data and having a look at where that’s going to go and how, and giving that business that predictive modelling on its future and giving them the advice they can plan for, not today, not even tomorrow but next week, next year, and giving them that, making sure they’re covered for who they’re going to be in the future rather than now, that to me is the biggest disruption of where we’ve got to these days.

Jenny Ellis: And, Justin, in terms of perhaps economic pressures, how is that sort of impacting insurance adequacy?

Justin Linney: I think economic pressures and economic climate are a constant really in business, especially with the globalisation of business now. I think when you add in factors like political, social and environmental issues, it drives things like increased cost of materials, increased cost of labour and supply chain impacts. And I think if you look at supply chain, specifically, then they’re more complex now. They’re more indirect supplies rather than direct. But you have to consider that extent of that supply chain to really understand the impacts on probably your sums insured and your exposures to really drive that with indemnity periods. But that brings back to the whole underinsurance piece and making sure that there’s adequate protections and adequate sums insured in place.

Jenny Ellis: Well, we are going to look at underinsurance in quite a bit, in a little bit. But, Rebecca, in terms of digital trading, what are you seeing there, what sort of impact’s that having?

Rebecca Gambrell: I think, look I think it’s evolved quite a lot over, since digital trading was first introduced into the market. I think we’ve moved to a place now where actually we can place more complex risks online. And brokers really want to drive that digital placement strategy as well, because it brings efficiencies to their own businesses. But also we’ve got, on the side of that, customers and their businesses changing and evolving quite rapidly. We see the local high street, for example, has changed quite dramatically to not just it being, I don’t know, a bookshop for example, but it’s a bookshop with a coffee restaurant in it.

So I think digital trading has evolved to meet the needs of our customers and our brokers in that sense, and we’ve expanded our limits, particularly at Aviva, to be able to trade more of those complex risks online, but it’s sort of now in that hybrid state where actually it’s not just sort of straight through, computer says yes or no, actually there’s a team of empowered underwriters at the other side to talk to our brokers about those complex risks to make sure that we’re placing the right cover for the customer.

Jenny Ellis: And, Brett, from, looking at a broker’s point of view, a digital first world, how do you think that’s changed or is changing?

Brett Sainty: It’s had a huge impact on broking. I think one of the things that Aviva have done incredibly well is put the customer at the centre of those advancements in terms of service provisions. So, even with quite complex risks, they can begin to be traded digitally, which is essentially saving time. And then if there needs to be technical referrals thereafter, we can enhance that with additional information and start building the presentation from that point, but keeping the customer central to that. And the depth of understanding about the risk I think is vitally important. Just to pick up on Ashleigh’s point about risk evolving and how the industry evolves, it’s that risk management and risk identification is really vital.


Jenny Ellis: And can it be tricky to sort of balance efficiency with advisory value?


Brett Sainty: Yes I mean it, I suppose the best analogy is a tradesman looking into the toolbox and identifying which tool is best for that job. There will be risks that a broker will identify immediately is not going to fit that profile where it can be trading online. And it’s identifying those that can and those that can’t, and then working with insurer partners. And, as I say, Aviva have done a great job in actually providing that suite of solutions. So it can start to be traded digitally and then move into an underwriter discussion thereafter. And we’ve had some quite complex risks, which we’ll give examples of, I’m sure, as the discussion progresses where, and we’ve really used all that leverage available to understand the risk. But, as I say, it’s looking in the toolbox and identifying what’s the best process to place that particular risk.

Jenny Ellis: Well, Justin, you mentioned underinsurance, obviously it’s a huge issue at the moment, how do you suppose we would define it in today’s sort of economic and risk environment?

Justin Linney: I think underinsurance has always been there and is a constant. And I think obviously some of the factors I’ve mentioned already are some of the real key influencing factors in that space. It can apply not just to buildings. Buildings is a consistent one that everybody talks around, but it’s stock, it can be contents, it can be machinery, as well as business interruption and indemnity periods. Just looking at some statistics from one of our specialist partners for this year, they’ve highlighted that, of the buildings they’ve assessed, that 59% of buildings they’ve assessed are underinsured, and on average they’re underinsured by up to 37%, which it just shows the depth of the problem, and obviously the piece that we all have to play in the industry is really to drive, making sure that we make people aware of the issues and give them the tools to support them to get them on the correct level of coverage.

Jenny Ellis: So do you think this protection gap, is this widening, do you think the macros is playing a part and sort of can you see kind of patterns of underinsurance that are tied to demographics, geography, that sort of thing?

Justin Linney: I think it’s a variety of factors, some of the ones I’ve already mentioned, like the environmental, the social, as well as economic, I think it’s really now how we can provide the tools to help them on that journey. Just within Aviva, for example, our team are going out with what we call health check tools. So when we’re going out and seeing clients, we can provide advice on adequacy of sum insured. It’s using our partner networks as well to get professional valuations. It’s the thought leadership stuff as well through our loss prevention standards, it’s highlighting what areas they need to look at and consider as part of their assessments. But, again, business interruption is really key for me and something, you know, a personal crusade let’s say that I look at. But indemnity periods and looking at supply chains as well as how you can actually recover from a loss potentially, I’m really driving those areas.

Jenny Ellis: What’s your thoughts on this, Rebecca, in terms of claim outcomes and business continuity, what sort of impact do you think underinsurance has?

Rebecca Gambrell: I think it can be really big for the customer, and I think it’s probably one of the areas that you don’t realise until you’ve had a total loss and then it comes into play quite significantly. And to Justin’s point, I think, the business interruption aspect of that, not just the sort of physical premises, can be really misunderstood in terms of how long it actually will take for you to get your business back on track. It’s not just getting another premises and filling it up with some more stock, but it’s about that supply chain aspect. It’s about re-onboarding staff, it’s about getting your customer base back, so it can take significantly longer than a lot of people first think. And that’s why at Aviva, we’re really concentrating on how we can support customers from an underinsurance perspective and start to introduce a number of tools. Justin mentioned a couple. But in the SME space, in particular, where we don’t see every risk, actually it’s about how we can highlight that they might be underinsured and what extra we can do to help protect them as well.

 

Jenny Ellis: So, Ashleigh, how do you think insurers can really identify people who at risk of being underinsured?

 

Ashleigh Gwilliam: I mean business interruption insurance first of all, I for one have been criticised for referring to business interruption insurance as the sexiest type of insurance. I find it the most interesting, I think it’s the most vital to a business’s survival, and that’s an area where you can actually do quite a lot to investigate what’s going on in that business’s world. Like historically rather than looking just at a snapshot in time of where that business is by their annual accounts and where they are on that day, that’s not enough in this modern world for brokers to be giving that level of advice. They should be giving them the support and helping plan that out.

For example, if you’re looking at a 36 months indemnity period, if you can look at a company’s financial performance over the last three, five years and identify the trends and how that’s performing, then if they’ve increased, well, this is really bad maths, by 10% on average a year over the last three years and you’re projecting a 36-month indemnity period, then you should be looking at a 33% increase to make sure they’re covered. And having those data-driven conversations with the clients about what’s available out there, that’s gone from being exceptional service to actually being the norm, and that’s what a good broker is doing these days. And the data that’s out there available, he’s really levelling the playing field between those large brokers and the smaller brokers to allow them to actually spend that time to do that research and understand what’s going on.

There was, part of the consumer duty legislation that came out, the FCA did an investigation, and they reckoned 73% of customers are expecting more from their insurance brokers these days. They’re expecting more of that service, more of that advice, more of that analytical behaviour into what’s going on in their world. And, you know, open banking is, has been revolutionary in the banking industry to keep that transition of information going on, and as we move more into the similar sort of spaces in the insurance world, but even using what’s already available and driving that to help give that advice, make better recommendations and look at the client, I’ve mentioned it earlier and I’ll repeat myself, but looking at the client’s future rather than today’s, that’s the key to really identifying this underinsurance. It’s where they’re going to be, not where they are.

Jenny Ellis: What would you say the implications of automated coverage adjustments?


Ashleigh Gwilliam: So I think automated, it depends, I think, because it’s all about transparency. And I think if the end client understands why these adjustments are happening, and they can see real time why that recommendation was made, why that adjustment’s been happened, then I’m all for it. But I think when you lose that level of transparency, it damages the reputation of the industry, not just the broker or the underwriter, because the client doesn’t understand, and they think 'oh you’re just charging me more money', and it’s giving them that modelling, giving that understanding of what’s going on there. I think there was, the Insurance Institute did some investigation on that. I think they said 68% of clients were more likely to take an increase in cover when they could see the scenario model of the impact of what was happening there.

So if you are underinsured, explaining the average, explaining that reduction. If you can explain that and show them in real terms, they were more accepting of it. So we have, the automated coverage stuff is really valuable, but only if it’s backed by trusted advice and transparency, we don’t lose that all-important human touch that makes what we do so vital to the client.

 

Jenny Ellis: And what are you saying, Brett, in terms of how important it is to educate clients on underinsurance and emerging risks?

 

Brett Sainty: Yeah vitally important and Ashleigh’s point is so well made that ultimately what we’re talking about here, it’s worth just going back to basics what is insurance, we’re essentially transferring risk from the customer’s balance sheet. So everything that we look at from this glass to the TV studio we’re in, to the traffic that’s going past, none of this can happen without insurance. So we’re transferring that risk, and in order to do that we must understand it first and be able to advise and educate those customers. So Ashleigh’s point about having an understanding of how they make their profit and ensuring the indemnity period is appropriate, and having that depth of understanding about that risk analysis in order to then provide the appropriate risk transfer. And I worry that sometimes that’s forgotten in this industry as we lean in towards more packaged-based policies.

There’s dangers that we shortcut underwriting, and essentially that doesn’t provide the customer with the appropriate cover that they think they have. The recent floods in Wales are a tragic example of where, for many of those policyholders, that became the first time that they were aware that they didn’t have flood cover, and that shouldn’t happen, that shouldn’t happen.

 

Jenny Ellis: And, Justin, strong risk management, how important do you think this is in tackling underinsurance and tackling risks like this?

 

Justin Linney: I think it’s key. I think Brett and Ashleigh have just made great points around education. I think the world is ever changing and we go beyond an insurance product for me. It is the guidance and support, the influence we have as an industry that can really drive some of those changes. Whether it’s been looking at regulation and legislation and having influence in that space or whether it’s providing the tools to support clients I think that’s the key for me and that education piece is huge.

 

Jenny Ellis: And in terms of digital platforms and the role they play, Ashleigh, you know, how important can they be in this?

 

Ashleigh Gwilliam: Digital platforms are fantastic and I think that speed of trading is so vital to our current customer, particularly with the generation shift that we’re getting as more millennials become COs, and these are people that have grown up with the internet and grown up with, you know, at the touch of a button expecting instant results, and they play such a vital role if they’re used the right way. And it’s making sure that we don’t detract from that, and I think we’ve all said it multiple times but that advice, that service, that education. And I think that becomes, there’s an opportunity, particularly when presenting back those recommendations, to use the digital platforms to produce some more guidance in regards to that, rather than just sitting with a 50-page policy document that no CFO really ever reads, that they require the broker to explain to them, actually can we visualise that in a better matter, can we explain that. And with digital platforms, I think, there’s so much more ways we can help have those better conversations with the client. And they’ve definitely got their place, they’re definitely valuable at speeding things up, so vital, but we just need to make sure we don’t lose that advice level as well.

 

Jenny Ellis: Well, Rebecca, Aviva obviously have quite a proactive approach when it comes to tackling underinsurance, talk me through that.

 

Rebecca Gambrell: Yes, absolutely, so across our commercial portfolio, we’ve got underinsurance tools to be able to flag to the broker or the underwriter, depending on how the business comes in that we believe that premises could be at the risk of underinsurance, so we can flag that. And where we’re confident in the data, we can suggest the sum insured as well. So that’s sort of the first, I guess, foray that we’ve had to help tackle it, just to highlight and again to that education piece to bring that to people’s attention to be able to review the sums insured. Recently as well we’ve introduced a new business interruption indemnity policy proposition on our fast trade products to help protect the customers, that extra level. So we have a minimum of 24 months indemnity period, free of charge. Because I think it comes again to that transparency piece, and also we mentioned the sort of state of the economy and difficulties that particularly SMEs are facing at the moment. It being free of charge means they don’t have to worry about an extra insurance expense for it, but they’re getting the right level of protection for their business as well.

So we’ve really tackled it in that way, and we’re continuing to explore other ways that we can really help customers and brokers, either whether it’s bringing scenarios to life where customers have got into trouble because they haven’t had adequate protection, to really I guess be transparent about what risks the customer can face, but also then working really closely with our brokers to help with that conversation and help get that message across, but also in a way that’s not detrimental necessarily to the customer.

 

Jenny Ellis: Well, we have touched on this a little bit earlier but I want to dig deeper into the sort of emerging risks in this modern business landscape. Ashleigh, I wonder if you can start by sort of telling me the main challenges you’re seeing today?

 

Ashleigh Gwilliam: I think, well, for modern clients, it’s that adapting. It’s the way that the world is changing. And the things that potentially weren’t insured before now need to be insured. I mean insurance traditionally we always wait to look at claims data and see how things are performing and then we can make a decision, which is very difficult when you’ve got new emerging risks. When there’s new things coming into the marketplace that are changing that inevitable risk, new ways of doing business, you know, things being done online. I mean I’m from Solihull. Jaguar Land Rover is my home town. My dad spent his whole life there, 90% of the people I know work there. It affected the whole economy of the local area when Jaguar stopped working for that period of time. And something as simple as, cyber insurance isn’t, in insurance terms, that new, but to businesses it is. And I think it’s explaining to, if a business like Jaguar Land Rover has missed out the fact that they are massively exposed there, it’s such a high risk that we as an industry need to be driving that educational piece forward and having those better levels of conversation.

It’s funny how those instances can change things. If you looked at BMW’s accounts from 12 months ago, they said the biggest risk to their business was supply chain disruption. If you look at BMW’s accounts now where they put their principal risk, guess what, it’s cyber risk. Because they’ve seen what’s happened to a competitor, a peer, and now they’re looking and changing their mind. And there’s so many different things like that, crypto that’s coming out, new ways of construction, the different types of vehicles on the road. You know, Teslas costing more to repair because the motors are on the wheels rather than on the engine. That level of change is where we really as an industry need to step up, because we can’t wait until there’s claims data out there, but we also need to give that advice and that education, I think it’s what we all keep coming back to, to the end client.

 

Jenny Ellis: And, Brett, what sort of emerging risks are on your radar?

 

Brett Sainty: I think through Ashleigh’s points, cyber, I mean if you look back 50 years, considerable business risks were considered flood, fire and theft, and it would be that material damage piece that would concern clients more than anything else. It’s fascinating isn’t it to think where we’re sat, you know, the Great Fire of London took place and then we invested considerably into fire prevention and risk management. And now the two go hand-in-hand. So we’re essentially trying to advise and improve the customer’s exposure to risk. Cyber’s a fascinating point, and one thing I think the industry needs to start turning its attention to is, rather than providing a very high indemnity limit on cyber, is starting to actually manage that risk improvement platform.

So just as we would talk from a material damage perspective or from fire, about an intruder alarm or a fire alarm or water suppression, we need to start thinking and understanding more deeply, what do those risk improvements look like for cyber? Because without question now I think the single biggest risk facing businesses is online, whether it be that reputational damage or cyber, and it’s managing that risk, and the insurance industry has a responsibility to understand that and apply that risk improvement measure as much as the risk transfer.

 

Jenny Ellis: It does feel like the entire landscape’s changing, because on top of cyber obviously businesses have to contend with ESG of course, modern methods of construction, other things. I want to come to you, Justin, and how do you think businesses and brokers really need to sort of approach these risks?

 

Justin Linney: Well, I think you’re right, the world, as I said already the world is ever changing. I think when you look at ESG, you’re finding businesses now have localised sustainable energy to power their businesses. You’ve got modern methods of construction and new methods of construction. You’ve got lithium-ion, although it’s been around for a long time, you know, people still don’t understand the risks that are associated with that. We’re getting mass automisation in warehouses, again that adds their own risk, and we’ve already touched on the cyber piece, and I think it’s how, again it’s the education piece, how we can support our clients.

So within Aviva Risk Management, for example, we’ve now expanded, got cyber risk consultants, latent defect risk consultants, marine risk consultants. We’re growing that armoury in terms of how we can support our clients. We’ve got two separate roles within our teams now as well that just produce thought leadership in terms of loss prevention guidance, and we’ve now got over 350 loss prevention standards that can go out to our clients. And it’s all of those type of things, coupled with the pieces that I mentioned already around influencing industry and influencing regulations that’ll help clients in that education piece and give them a little bit more security.

 

Ashleigh Gwilliam: Can I add to that point, you mentioned ESG, and I think ESG in the insurance industry is so vitally misunderstood. I think in the general public it’s vitally misunderstood. I’ve recently completed my dissertation in sustainability and the focus on ESG and the financial services industry, and I think when you talk about ESG, everyone focuses on the E. Everyone focuses on the environment, focuses on carbon, focuses on new batteries, focuses on loads of different things there. And yes it’s important, it’s vitally important. And I think the research that I did showed that out of the top 50 financial services firms in the UK, 60% of their ESG reports were dedicated to environmental concerns. And OK we do have a climate crisis and we do have a problem there. But to solve those new ideas and to come up with those new ways of fixing those problems, we can’t just rely on the same 12 people sitting in the room.

And that’s where that social element of it is actually the more powerful part of ESG. Bringing in that diversity, bringing in those new people, those diversity of thoughts have those new ideas, that makes a business more sustainable. That’s the element of sustainability we should be focusing on is, what is the plan is this doing, what is it doing to protect its supply chain, what diversification, what is it looking at there? And of course from the governance, well, in our industry we know about the governance element of it, that’s fine, and companies are better with that, but companies that have good governance are better insurance risks. And I think that education piece of ESG is not just about environment, it is about the whole pall of ESG. And that’s why it should be such an important rating to underwriters, and brokers should be looking into that in more detail.

 

Jenny Ellis: And, Rebecca, Aviva’s SME proposition, how is that sort of evolving to meet modern risks?

 

Rebecca Gambrell: I think in a number of ways, we’ve obviously touched on cyber, and we’ve got two cyber digital products, Cyber Respond and Cyber Complete, depending on sort of the size of the customer, to help support with that. And then we also have a suite of sort of additional I guess value-adds around not just the core insurance products that we have but, Aviva BusinessLaw’s a great example, where the customer or the client has access to that 24/7 to get legal advice, to get advice on employee matters, etc., how to onboard an employee, what to do about redundancies, what to do about pensions, etc.

So there’s a whole suite of products around that that’s not just the sort of the core 'yes your building is covered, yes your stock is covered', and there’s much more to come in that space as well. So we’re constantly looking and evolving and helping find ways to support our customers that go just beyond the core of an insurance product.

 

Jenny Ellis: OK. Well, let’s look in more detail now on the evolving broker landscape. Justin, I’m going to come to you first, and just looking at this accelerating shift towards digitalisation in broking, how would you say Aviva blends digital efficiency with human expertise?

 

Justin Linney: I don’t think you can replace human expertise to some degree, because it’s that client touchpoint and I think that’s really key, but I think the drive for digitalisation both in terms of how we engage our customers and some of the products that we use to support it I think is key. I think in the risk management space, we’ve diversified where, it’s speed of response for me. If we can give a customer or one of our broker partners an answer really quickly, it’s how we can actually get out there. So using virtual risk management tools, where we can connect and have a look around at a certain process or a certain element of security to give the client peace of mind, I think that’s really key, and then I think it’s really how we can sort of use things like 3MotionAI. It was a tool we’re looking at, which is an AI tool to test ergonomics on people. I think that’s another element. But again it’s how we’re starting to use AI really to read reports, speed of response and give the client peace of mind, I think that’s the key element.

 

Jenny Ellis: And, Rebecca, how’s AI and enriched data being used to improve underwriting accuracy and speed?

 

Rebecca Gambrell: I think at Aviva we’re investing a lot in AI and how that can support us as a business. And I think we’ve got some great examples, whether that’s in a digital space where we’re using it to pinpoint risks that we want to sort of proactively have a conversation with the broker about, or be able to cross-sell based on the profile of the client other covers that we believe are appropriate, right up into our midmarket space where we’re using AI and data enrichment to ingest the quote within 30 minutes, bring in a whole host of information that’s there, right there, underwriters’ tips. And it’s not, to Justin’s point, it’s not about replacing that human touch, but it’s about meaning actually in a really quick and efficient way we can give the underwriter every piece of information that they need, to then have a conversation with the broker and understand the risk and get that quote out really quickly. So it’s about augmenting and supporting our underwriting process with those efficiencies.

 

Jenny Ellis: So, Justin, can you give me some examples of how sort of Aviva’s supporting brokers and clients when it comes to this?

 

Justin Linney: Yes, well, I’m pleased to say we’ve got a huge toolkit that can support our clients. I think there’s the thought leadership stuff in terms of the loss prevention standards I’ve mentioned. There’s the innovation, so how we can use technology, such as drones and thermographic cameras, where we’re out with our customers to help provide assessments that would be, have to be completed in a different means. It’s using things like slip tests assessments. It’s using our partner network and their tools and their services to really help clients implement improvements at cost-effective and quality standards, really to what drives the industry. But then I think the big thing is, it’s using the expertise both of our broker partners and of our teams really to help our customers.

We’ve just started to work closely with our colleagues as well in Canada and Ireland. And again we’re learning so much from them, because they’ve got expertise in different areas that we haven’t got in the UK, and they’ve seen things for a few years that we probably haven’t. So again having that network now and that close connectivity is really starting to give us more material that we can start to build to support our customers.

 

Jenny Ellis: So, Ashleigh, how do you think that people can future proof their risk strategies?

 

Ashleigh Gwilliam: I think there’s sort of three main angles to how a business these days come to look at that. There was a report by Deloitte that said that businesses that recovered three times as fast from an incident invested 23% more in diversification beforehand. Whether that’s a supply chain, whether that’s their people programmes, whether there’s stuff like that, so looking at that diversification, looking at what’s going on in your own business and how you can support that’s very key. The next is using that real-time analytics, and whether that’s from an underwriter or from a broker, or even from a company itself looking its own suppliers, these days it’s so easy to track the risk of what’s going on in your supply chain, to be alerted to potential changes that have gone down the line.

So work we did at Full Circle nCino with Lloyds Bank, a few years, was looking at their fourth party supplier network. So identifying, actually not their suppliers at risk, but if their supplier’s suppliers are at risk, when that alert comes through, how that affects the whole supply chain, and having that advanced research and knowledge down that pipeline is so vital. And then the last one for me is, it’s strategic partnerships over transactional business. I think there was a report by PwC that 84% of CFOs preferred having that advice-led service. But where that really comes into its own is not just working very closely with your broker to understand that, it’s that tripartite relationship of broker and underwriter, building that long-term relationship with a good underwriter as well as a good broker, that understands your business, understands where you’re going, so if something does happen they can get you back on your feet quick as possible and there’s no disruption to anything that’s going on there.

 

Jenny Ellis: And, Brett, how would you say brokers are leveraging Aviva’s tools and data to achieve better outcomes?

 

Brett Sainty: Well, I mean Aviva are a very very large organisation, so they’ve got an enormous amount of buying power and expertise. They’ve been doing this for quite a long time in the UK. So they’ve got a relationship with BCH, who can provide free reinstatement cost assessments to customers, which is vitally important. If you look at the property stock in the UK, we’re really at both ends of the spectrum. So we’ve got many properties that are being converted, sometimes listed properties. So their construction is going to be quite unique, all the way to commercial properties that are being repurposed into residential. We’re still struggling with the cladding issues in this country, sadly. So all of these properties need to be assessed and understood, and the danger of them being underinsured is incredibly relevant.

So Aviva providing that option to actually have an independent reinstatement cost assessment, and to do that digitally sometimes, so that can be desktopped, but you’ve then had an expertise view looking at actually what is the true reinstatement cost assessment for that. So it’s really leaning into that risk assessment stuff, but particularly using the expertise and the experience of Aviva, particularly their risk management teams, to actually drive that, as Ashleigh has said several times, that advisory point that it’s not an off-the-shelf product, we’re actually helping the customer mitigate risk.

 

Jenny Ellis: OK. So let’s have some more real world examples then of how the sort of collaboration between Aviva and how it’s helping clients?

 

Brett Sainty: Well that tripartite relationship I think is desperately important. We had an example recently when we were invited to work with the Pan Am 103 Lockerbie Charity. And they’d purchased what was an unoccupied church in Lockerbie that had been left really unoccupied for many many years and was in quite a poor state. So that was going to be a challenging insurance placement. But it’s a great example where, despite the fact that we’re a London-centric Lloyds’ broker, we engaged with Aviva Glasgow, because we felt actually that risk belonged in Scotland, and Aviva were very supportive in encouraging that. We really leant in to the data gathering on the risk.

So we actually took a significant amount of drone footage. Aviva were able to offer a pre-cover survey before we even bound the risk. Uniquely we found ourself on a conference call at one point with the Chief Exec from the Pan Am 103 Lockerbie Charity dialling in from Miami, the Aviva lead property underwriter based in Glasgow, me in Lloyds, the architect and the construction firm - can you imagine a broker being that comfortable actually everybody’s now on the call? We actually placed that risk on that video conference call, including the rating and the risk assessment and the understanding, because so much work had gone into gathering the data.

Now, £10m unoccupied, poor-conditioned church in Lockerbie, trust me, is not a natural Aviva write. That wouldn’t be the first market that you’d thought of. But through that process of a deep understanding of the risk, a complete and utter transparency with the customer, Aviva’s support to say actually yeah we agree, this is something we should probably be involved in, we were able to place that risk. So it was a great example of an incredibly traditional placement which ultimately ended up with me and the underwriter talking about rate and what the customer needs were. But to get there we really leveraged all of that experience from Aviva, the reinstatement cost assessment, the pre-cover survey, the risk management, the drone footage and then using that technology to place it.

So a really classic example of ultimately it was a passion placement for us, but it ended up with me and an underwriter, you know, in a traditional London market placement, but behind that we grabbed all of this technology. And I have to say my thanks to Aviva who understood the importance of that project and were happy to lean into it, but with all of their toolkit we were able to make that placement.

 

Ashleigh Gwilliam: It’s fantastic.

 

Jenny Ellis: And from Aviva’s point of view, when it comes to insurance, how do you see your role, do you see it as more sort of reactionary or preventative or a little bit of both, and how do you kind of stay one step ahead?

 

Justin Linney: From my perspective I think it’s a little bit of both. Unfortunately as an industry sometimes we do react. But we learn from those say loss or, those events really to try and make sure that doesn’t happen again. But I think it’s definitely prevention-led. I think the more we can provide that guidance, you know, working closely with Brett and, you know, to drive those actions, then I think if we’re joined up at the outset then we can tick a few of those boxes and really make sure that the client’s protected and we’re providing the best advice and deliver the best outcome.

 

Jenny Ellis: And, Rebecca, from your point of view?

 

Rebecca Gambrell: I completely agree. I think it comes back to a number of things that we’ve said over the course of today in terms of it’s about transparency. It’s about bringing the right expertise together and about having those conversations so that we can make sure that everybody fully understands the risk and what we’re insuring, but also then helping with those preventative measures to make sure, you know, nobody has insurance for the fun of it, they want it to come into play when they really need it, but actually if we can prevent some of those things happening, that’s a much better position than the event happening in the first place. So I think it is a combination of all of those things.

 

Jenny Ellis: OK. Well, we are almost out of time. So if I can take your final thoughts, what you’d like the viewer to really take away from today’s masterclass. So, Ashleigh, I came to you first, why don't I come to you first again.

 

Ashleigh Gwilliam: So, if you can anything away from me, it’s transparency, it’s education and it’s examination. It’s looking at the data that’s so much available out there and finding, the key with the data is sometimes there’s too much out there and it’s finding that vital piece of information in there. But for everyone there is something vital out there that really affects how you look at that risk and that situation that, with the right level of examination and the right level of partnership, it really, I mean that story is fantastic about the partnership there, really amazing. So that’s really the key. It’s working in partnership with your broker with transparency and education there, for me, yeah, that sums it up.

 

Jenny Ellis: And, Brett, your final thoughts?

 

Brett Sainty: I think for the broking community, really remembering our purpose and really leaning into that. So, you know, we are a customer-centric centre really, and you have to think about actually we’re transferring risk and we’re helping to mitigate risk. So we have to put the customer at the centre of that and remember actually that we’re providing a vitally important service that underpins the wider economy. But customers do, you know, are entitled to expect that great service from a broker that is really giving them advice and helping them manage that risk.

 

Jenny Ellis: Justin?

 

Justin Linney: I think we’ve covered education, I think education is key, but from a risk management perspective, we’re always listening, we’re always learning, and we’re always trying to provide the next solution for the customers.

 

Jenny Ellis: And Rebecca?

 

Rebecca Gambrell: I think it’s probably, not to steal everyone else’s thunder but a combination of all of those three. I think, for me, in particular, just because a risk is digital doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be having a conversation about it. So I would encourage brokers to phone in and use our teams. They’re there, they’re ready to talk. And quite often actually we can place more complex risks online digitally than you might imagine just by having that conversation. So pick up the phone and have that chat.

 

Jenny Ellis: Well, unfortunately, that is all the time we’ve got left for today, but all that remains is to thank my fantastic panel today. So thank you for being with us. And to you back home, thanks for watching and see you soon. Bye.