Insure TV Masterclass: Claims innovation

Mark: Hello and welcome to this Insure TV Masterclass with me, Mark Colegate. Today, we are looking at claims, some of the innovation and some of the trends that are coming through in the Market. To discuss that I’m joined here in the studio by four experts, let’s meet them. From Aviva, we have Clare Laxy. She’s Digital and IT System Optimisation Lead. And we’re also joined by Ines Wade, UK Broker Claims Relationship Leader. We are also joined today by Neil Grimes. He is Claims Director at the Clear Group, and by Victoria Sutton, Business Performance Director at Howden UK and Ireland. Clare, can I start with you, can you tell us a little bit about your role and where that intersects with claims, and also from that perspective what are some of the trends that you’re seeing in the Market at the moment?

Clare Laxy: Thanks, I’m Clare. I’m the Digital and IT Optimisation Lead for claims. My main responsibility is developing new digital capabilities that support the claims operational areas, to drive efficiencies and deliver better customer outcomes. In terms of trends that we’re seeing in the Market, technology and AI is coming on leaps and bounds for us, and we’re heavily investing in that space, which I think drives both opportunity and challenges in the insurance industry.

Mark: Thank you, so tech and AI. Ines, can you tell us a bit about your role as Relationship Leader at Aviva, and again what are some of the themes that you’re seeing?

Ines Wade: Hi Mark. So I’m Ines wade, and I look after the UK broker relationships. My team are regionally aligned, so they look after the various regions in the UK. Some of the themes and trends that we’re seeing is the importance of the broker relationship, and also how that then leads to some of the changes that we make here at Aviva as well in our propositions in particular.

Mark: Neil, the Clear Group, you’ve quite a lot going under there, so where does your role fit across the piece?

Neil Grimes: The Clear Group comprises of our UK retail. We’ve got London Market. We have an Irish operation. We’ve moving into Europe. We have MGAs that we own, and also we have a broker network called Brokerbility. The claims side is primarily our UK retail business. We cover all classes of insurance. We deal with all the insurers in the Market, and the loss adjusters. The claims team are here to look after clients and service their needs when it comes to a claim. We build a lot of relationships with all of our insurer partners, that’s key. We work with them all on the tech that’s coming through to make the customer’s journey a lot smoother.

Mark: Thank you. And, Victoria, tell us a little bit about your role as Business Performance Director, again where does that overlap with claims?

Victoria Sutton: So I’m Business Performance Director solely for claims for the corporate and commercial part of Howden UK&I. So I have about 75 claims staff based across the UK. My role is to really drive the service for our clients. So whether that’s through training and developing my teams, process and procedures, looking at digital options that can support our clients. So it’s quite a wide-ranging role but very interesting.

Mark: Everyone on the panel has agreed technology and AI, the importance of the broker relationship, is there anything, other key themes for you that you’d want to add?

Victoria Sutton: I think there’s two key themes that I’m seeing a lot of. So we’ve got the attraction and retention of talent. I think that’s a real challenge for insurance, but particularly the claims arena, especially post-COVID where I think a lot of the staff were put on furlough and we lost a lot of talent there. And also the cost of services too, as part of the claims process, so the cost of repairs on motor has gone astronomical, cost of building repairs is astronomical, and it’s making sure that the contractors out there are in line with the validation services and things that insurers use, and that’s a real challenge for the broking space.

Mark: Well, a lot to unpack there, before we jump into that, I’ll just start with just a sense of what happens if the claims process goes wrong? Let’s look at what can go right and what could be improved, but in terms of dodging bullets, what’s the impact if there’s a claims process that goes horribly wrong for you, the client, and for the insurer?

Neil Grimes: The impact is very hard on a broker, because you’re in the middle between the insurer and the client. You've placed a business with that particular insurer for that client, so they expect if it goes wrong you’re there to sort it out and sort it out quickly. It could be anything from bottlenecks in the supply chains to a breakdown in a process, tech has failed, parts, supply problems, labour problems. The client doesn’t want to hear that, they just want their property repaired, or their claim settled, or their vehicle back on the road. So we have to do a lot of fighting fires. And what’s key to that is the relationships that we build with our insurer partners. And also the supply chains, we make our own relationships with supply chains to get it over the line, and talking helps and works, and face-to-face relationships is what actually gets the job done at the end. I think that’s key to what we do, and Victoria would agree that it’s the be-all and end-all for us is that relationship with our partners.

Mark: Victoria, I suppose quite a lot of people might buy insurance on price alone, but there’s price and there’s value. For you as Howden’s, how important is the overall piece? I’m saying you pick it thinking they’ve got a great claims department, forget the price and everything else, but how important is it thinking…

Victoria Sutton: Price is always going to be a factor, especially what’s happening economically at the moment. Our SME and commercial space is about to be really hit with the NI rises. So it is at the forefront of their mind. So, from a claims perspective, it’s about being able to demonstrate that we’re there to support them. So for us at Howden, we just launched a new claims proposition in February, and the real focus that we’re doing is going actually how can we prepare a client for a claim? Let’s not be reactive, claims is naturally reactive. And by that point they’ve already paid for their insurance. Whereas actually if we can demonstrate from day one when they’re part of that renewal process, or that new business process, what we’re going to provide from a claims perspective, that helps justify the value that going via a broker has.

Mark: I’d really like to come back to that proactive point in a sec, before I do that we must get a view from the insurer, if a claim goes wrong, what does it do, what impact does it have on Aviva in your business?

Ines Wade: I think when a claim goes wrong it has a huge impact on our clients, on our brokers and on us as well. This is where, as Neil was saying, that partnership is really important, and from our perspective we very much focus on making the claims journey as smooth as possible. Making sure that we’re investing in our staff so that they have the technical expertise that they need, as well as the tool, the tech, the AI, to make sure that they get to the correct decision as quickly as possible, and making sure we get to that end outcome. But when it goes wrong, and there is a bit of a dispute, that partnership is really critical, which is where my team come in. And that’s why we have that regional one face to Market approach across our regions with our distribution and trading colleagues as well, building that regional relationship with our broker partners as well. So when it comes to a dispute, it is a conversation, understanding each other’s viewpoints, and building out that partnership and working together for our clients and getting to the right claims outcome.

Mark: Clare, just to pick up on that point, I guess part of the relationship is there’ll be opinions and perspectives on this, but underlying it all must be some hard data, you know, what was agreed on, what was signed, collecting evidence. So how much of your time is spent making sure that you’ve got the systems in place that collect that, or can collect that from the broker, and create an agreed set of facts somewhere in the middle of this discussion?

Clare Laxy: Absolutely, that is key, right. So getting the right information upfront from our clients and our brokers sets the claim off on the happy path. There’s no intention of it, you know, that’s not what we come to do, we try and ensure that we retain it in that space. We spend a lot of our time investing in our technology to help aid our handlers, and making quicker decisions and right decisions, and setting that claim off on the happy path. Now problems do happen that sometimes are out with our control and our ability to manage. I think us more being proactive in the handling of claims and leading the claim, as opposed to the broker having to chase, has a lot of value in it. We analyse an enormous amount of data daily, weekly to see the trends, and then we act upon those trends and look for ways that we can improve them to drive more of an efficient process and a better claims journey.

Mark: Victoria, you mentioned proactive, so how do you, how proactive can you be?

Victoria Sutton: It’s about educating our clients. So we’ve gone hard on what materials and resources can we provide our clients before a claim’s even happened. But one of the things that we did do when we were looking at what our proposition should be was sort of sit back and go well where do we add value in that claims journey? I think brokers can be quite traditional in their approach. And they want to handhold all of it, we’re very not trusting of insurers sometimes. And we sat back and we were like actually we probably delay the claim in some places. So what’s really exciting with the digital and the data is we can now have confidence in going, right we can step back at certain stages, let the insurer get on with it, but we’ve still got an awareness of what’s happening. We’re still monitoring the performance. And we are actually freed up to spend our time doing what we do best, which is finding the grey in a policy, you know, we don’t like to have a repudiated claim, we’re going to fight for the client.

Mark: Neil, can I get your thoughts there, particularly just to frame it, I was talking to a US insurer a few weeks ago, and one of the things they said the training did in the States is actually increasing the claims going, the broker doesn’t get involved at all, it plugs straight into the main insurer. That might be taking it to an extreme for the UK and Ireland, but get your thoughts on where’s the point where you’re adding value and where’s the point where there’s a danger you’re getting, you know, you’re just another step in the process?

Neil Grimes: There are certain claims, sorry, policies, claims going direct to the insurer, because you don’t add value as a broker. Where we add the value is with things that complicate it, where there is a large dossier there to work with the client and hold their hands. As Victoria said, the proactive side of things is key. So in Clear we use our claims network, before there’s ever a claim, to help prevent claims, so educating the clients is key, are what generates claims. The trends that we get and the date shows where claims are happening, you can feed that information back into the clients. So that’s one way where we add the value to help for preventing a claim. But certainly when you have the declinatures, what’s great with the partnerships we have with insurers, if there is going to be a declinature, it comes to us first. We’ll analyse it and then we’ll challenge when we see, when it’s right to challenge and go back. We have good success rate of overturning. But if we do agree with it, we will then feed that through to the client and explain it to the client as to why it’s declined, the reasons why and why we agree with the insurer in that case, and that’s where we use our experience as well. Large loss is key, it’s a very complicated area, have you got business interruption? You have surveyors, buildings, everybody involved. So we’re there to hold the client’s hand and direct them through each of the processes, and liaise with the adjustors or the assessors at the same time. And what’s key is that the insurers welcome this from us, because they know, the same for Howden’s as well, that we’re experienced, we know what we’re doing, so they trust us with that information.

Mark: You were saying there about one thing you do is prevent claims through things like education, I mean what sort of percentage can you get claims down by, if everybody understands what the rules and processes are and mistakes not to make before you even go down this path?

Neil Grimes: There’s no real percentage that you can get down, what is key is to reduce lifecycles if there is a claim, get people reporting it on day one, using app technology. Because you were saying earlier on about helping the client at the start, what information to have, an app is a very good tool. Because all the questions are there, right there from the start. You can upload pictures, upload videos. It gets the claim moving very quickly. So educating your clients on how to use an app correctly can speed up a process. You can engage with third party capture. Which I personally had to use Aviva’s one recently, it was a very good service. So there’s ways you can help to reduce the costs of a loss, not just preventing it, but also to reduce the costs for the claims experience that the client would have.

Mark: Ines, get your thoughts, you were saying earlier you said everybody, it’s regional teams, so why have you done that rather than say having a very centralised function tucked away in Norwich or London?

Ines Wade: Because we want to be where our brokers are. Our brokers are in various parts of the country, and we want to be where they are. Making sure that we are visible in those regions, making sure that we’re providing that support when our brokers need us, and facing in to any conversations along with our trading and distribution colleagues as well. But just to Neil’s point earlier around day one notifications as well, is that when it comes to the day one notifications, this is where the Acturis API comes in really well, and both Clear Group and Howden are working with us in partnership on that, is that the reason we’ve developed that piece of technology is to ensure that we can deliver that day one notification as quickly as possible. But if you’ve got a direct notification client, that client can then notify directly to Aviva, but at the same time the broker is seeing that, and they are enabling them to add the value that they want to do and can do as well. So, from that perspective, the Acturis API is something that we’re really proud of, and we’ve got our broker partners that we’ve worked with as well.

Mark: You mentioned the API, which obviously my understanding will mean that if you like Clear Group systems get glued with yours, or the data can come through from one to the other, is that essentially how it works?

Clare Laxy: Yes.

Mark: Sorry, I’m aware I’m sitting next to somebody who’s technical, so I’m probably going horribly wrong here.

Clare Laxy: No, that’s OK. That’s absolutely what it is. So it’s a technology that we’ve developed with Acturis, and every time we put a new claim on our Guidewire system, or making a change on an existing system, change on an existing claim, sorry. It will automatically feed an update through to the broker’s module of Acturis, and notify them that something’s changed. So if a client was directly reporting into us, the broker real-time would get notification that a new claim has been reported, and is kept in the loop of the progress of that claim. As well as that, we spend a lot of time, our brokers spend a lot of time chasing for updated positions, and this will do that as well. So preventing the broker from having to follow up, and preventing Aviva from having to spend time in responding, allowing the resources that we do have available to us to focus on where it really adds value, and some of that more complex stuff that we talked about earlier. So it’s definitely an industry first, and it’s a fantastic tool, and our priority in 2025 is to onboard as many brokers as we can, because it’s an efficiency play for brokers, and I think that will change the dynamics of how claims are reported into us. Ideally, from an Aviva perspective, we want to utilise our digital ENOL notification, because that is a guided workflow of the right information, questions that we need upfront. And that helps us to set that claim on the right happy path to capture third party details to make proper liability decisions. And by doing that it will automatically feed real-time into the broker’s Acturis record, so everyone’s kept informed.

Mark: So, if I’m a broker and using Acturis, does that mean I’m automatically linked in to what you’ve been describing, or are there things I would need to do to install it and open the pipework?

Clare Laxy: Yeah, there are things that the brokers need to do. It’s quite minimal. So we’ve been working extensively in 2024 with a number of brokers to build the solution and develop it, package it up. The work that needs to be done on the broker’s end is just ensuring that they’re setting up their Acturis in the way that they want to receive the information. So there’s things like putting it into a holding pen so that they get the notifications at that stage or they can choose the ability for it just to update the record automatically for them. So there is a little bit of effort for brokers, but it’s not significant at all.

Mark: We were talking about measuring to some extent what success looks like, have you got any good rules of thumb for measuring a successful claim of how it’s processed: is it speed, is it some form of efficiency, or is it a bit more of an art than a science?

Neil Grimes: I think it’s a combination of all of it, because at the end of the day you want to have a satisfied happy client. But like we just said about the happy path. I haven’t heard that used as phrase before, I like that. It’s what you want, you want to have, because a good claims service helps towards retention of a client. And that’s all key to what, as a broker what you want to do is you want to build those relationships, keep your client, keep your client happy. Having a good claims team that works closely with your broking teams and the account execs is key. Because it’s all about communication, communication is the nemesis of our trade in claims, and we’ve always said that from day one, there has to be communication on all parties for it to work. But it is, sometimes we’ve had claims settled in 24 hours because of the tech, with some of the insurers working that you’ve got, an ecstatic client at 24 hours. You’ve got claims that will take a long time, sometimes it can take years and so on. But as long as you keep the client updated about what’s happening, they’re more than happy. And even if it’s bad news, as long as you tell them about what’s going on, there’s going to be delays, they won’t get to you for six weeks. If you don’t tell them, then that’s when it’s kicks off. If you do tell them, then they’re still a fairly happy client at the end of the day. Just following on from the API that you were talking about, because we’re part of the pilot for this, as is Victoria, the API will be a bit of a game-changer for us, because 29% of our correspondence is chasers, and the fact that you have this system that would update ours at the same time is huge, because the lifecycles would reduce as well. Pilot studies are very key to this, because they’ll listen to the brokers when we’re doing this. So there are a few things that we’d have to look at. Like it’s one way in terms of the information, but we've got to go both ways. As I say, it is a central hub where it comes into to be fed out into your departments. But I think it’s the way forward. And the app also ties into how it would work for us as well. So there’s so many little things would help to suit up the process, and that’s what will keep a client happy as well, as that information is on-tap for us to provide to our clients.

Mark: Thank you, let’s bring Victoria in first, because obviously you’re part of the pilot as well, and then Clare, let’s bring you back in.

Victoria Sutton: Yeah, so we’re just getting going on the pilot, and the utopia for me would be that one day we never have to ring an insurer for a reserve, because that is the bane of the life of our claims handlers. So I’m really excited that actually that admin part is going to go, and we can really focus on what we do best, which is I sometimes say being a bit of a translator between the insurer and the client, helping to set those expectations. So I think it’s giving us a real opportunity to use our collective power for better to help our clients, which will improve retention rates and all of that malarkey.

Mark: Clare?

Clare Laxy: Yeah, and just to pick up on Neil’s point. We have developed the capability, but we are going to continually invest in improving the solution. So we would talk about two-way communication, it is a one-way feed at the moment; however it is in our ambition to continue developing that with Acturis. I also think as well that where we talk about speeds and quick settlements, and day one information, and getting visibility of what - if we get the right information day one, we can absolutely settle that claim within 24 hours that you kind of mentioned. That’s the critical point for us, where we’re able to do so. Even if we’re not able to settle it on day one, getting the right information upfront, as I mentioned earlier, enables us to put it on the happy path. Therefore quick settlements I think is a key for good customer experience, and that’s definitely what we strive to do.

Mark: Ines, you mentioned the time decay, if you get the right information but a bit later it can have this knock-on effect, do you mind just unpacking that a bit, have you got maybe an example of, I don’t provide you with the right information for my client in 24 hours, maybe it’s 48, why is that such a problem in the process?

Ines Wade: So when you have a motor claim if…

Mark: Is this particular to motor or?

Ines Wade It’s specific to motor, if we don’t capture, and let’s say I’m at fault. I have a car accident, I’m at fault, and that third party that I’ve hit, my insurer hasn’t had an opportunity to contact them, put them in their own repair centre, or hire vehicle, then what then happens is various other parties will get involved, which will then inflate that claim's cost, and they have an opportunity. So the longer the time goes on, the more opportunity other people have to intervene effectively and inflate that claim’s cost. So that’s why we really like it when our clients report those claims directly to us.

Mark: Thank you, and Victoria, if I could take a sceptical line on tech just for a minute, because you’re all very big fans of it, is there a danger on this though that if you’re a broker you think well, this all sounds fantastic, but again suddenly it’s going to be two-way communication, more investment, and a couple of years down the line you talk to a colleague in-house and they go we’re employing so many more people in the tech department than we ever did, keeping this thing running is becoming a nightmare?

Victoria Sutton: I think it’s about us using it sensibly, I think the conversations about AI in general is like we’ve got to use it for the power of good, and not use it to try and save some pennies here and there, it’s actually got to have a purpose. So I think for brokers, for us especially at Howden, it’s giving us that opportunity for people to spend time doing what they do best. And actually what they want to focus on, they don’t want to be stuck on the phone. At the moment they’re stuck on the phone for anything up to half an hour with different insurers, just trying to trace some reserve; whereas, all of that side, if we can have that automated, they can really focus on going, that reserve doesn’t look right, I’m going to ring up the claims handler at the insurer, and have a discussion about why that reserve is where it’s at, and trying to improve the claim for the client. So I think it’s just making sure that we use it for good. I think if you get it right, you don’t need hundreds of people on the tech side, it’s quite, as you said, quite streamlined, quite simple what we need to do. Acturis is a good system from that. I think there will be issues with legacy systems at different insurers, because other insurers are going to want to follow suit. So that’s going to be a bit of a challenge as legacy systems. So that will be interesting to see, because then it’s, we’re going to have to have a different process for each insurer, and that might get a bit muddy, so we’ve got some things to iron out.

Mark: Neil, have you got any thoughts on that, legacy systems, not everything perfectly?

Neil Grimes: I do, funnily enough me and Victoria were chatting about this previously. There was always underinvestment by insurers, certainly on the claims side. I think claims systems are always an afterthought. They were a tag onto a broker system or a tag onto an underwriting platform, an accounting platform. I think what’s been nice to see over the last couple of years, certainly since post-COVID, suddenly the insurers are spending money on the tech on the claims side. What we’re doing with the Acturis API is exciting for us, the app technology, the AI technology. It won’t replace handlers, because I’ll always trust my gut over a computer any day of the week, I’ve been doing this long enough, but I think it’s exciting about what’s happening with this stuff. Victoria’s right. There’s so many different older systems that suddenly now have to catch up with each other, and you spend millions of pounds getting a new system in and then it’s out of date within a year because someone else has come forward. The jump in technology over the last five years has been phenomenally large. You can’t even keep up with it. So my concern is that at one point with these legacies that changed to the new ones, how quickly would it be before they’re now out of date to move on? I think AI will keep doing that, will keep challenging the platforms to, well I can do better than you, you’re just trying to catch up with the AI, it’s moving at a pace, and I think that’s where we’re at. But it’s exciting in this part of our careers to see what’s coming next.

Clare Laxy: It’s a similar challenge in insurers with complex legacy systems as well.

Mark: Norwich Union.

Clare Laxy: Correct, and not all of our brokers are on the Acturis platform, some use different software houses. So we’ve only developed this capability with Acturis for the time being. You make a really good point around AI and how it’s moving, and it is a challenge to keep up with the technology. Within Aviva we’ve invested really heavily when you talk about, are we going to have lots more tech roles, and particularly in the data science space. And that’s because we run now over 80 analytics tools across our claims function, and that does a number of things. Helps to support better/quicker decision making, accuracy of decisions, but most important co-pilots for our handlers, so removing a lot of that admin tasks and providing that level of support alongside, because you can’t remove the human element of claims handling, because insurance is complex.

Mark: Ines, on that point, we’re talking about technology enhancing capabilities rather than replacing humans, so how are you finding it in your team if there’s more AI about, more data about, but it’s a people business at the same time?

Ines Wade: Yes, I always say, we are a human business, and it is about that, I think technology is there to enhance that human experience. I think the tech that Aviva are investing in is helping us have more human interaction, focus on the bits that tech can’t do, and there’s a lot of it in claims. It’s about adding that value and making sure that we’re reaching those decisions quicker. So just to add to that as well, the human experience as well shows us the investment at Aviva isn’t just in tech, it’s also in our people. So when you look at our loss adjusting capability, we’ve heavily invested in our loss adjusting team. The reason for that is that our loss adjusting team, it needs to grow. We have a strategy focused on in-house capability. We have therefore invested to ensure that we’ve got forensic accountants, and we’ve got qualified surveyors as well, and making sure that we’re building that in-house proposition out as well. So the tech is supporting us delivering quick settlements for our clients and creating that smooth claims journey that we all want.

Mark: Victoria, we’re describing a process where there’s quite a lot of reinvestment going on, and obviously we’re talking about Aviva today, but is this a point in the cycle where a lot of insurers are going through this, or is it, for you as a broker, are you thinking, some insurers are much more keen on this than others?

Victoria Sutton: I think you have your core set of insurers, luckily most of them are our partner insurers. I think we’re having better conversations. I think if we even go back two years ago, everyone was looking at things in silo, and therefore people were launching apps, portals left right and centre, yet because there hadn’t been any collaboration, things weren’t working, things were clunky. So I think that’s got better in the last two years that we’re having constructive conversations. I know we really focus on monitoring our insurer performance, but part of that for me is I meet regularly with all of our partner insurers, and we’re challenging them, but it is a two-way conversation of how can we support? That’s why having those conversations with Aviva, two years ago, we leapt at the chance to be part of the trial, because actually if we’re in it from day one, we’re helping that development, and it’s going to be a more useful tool than if we just let other people get on with it and pick it up near the end.

Mark: Well, I was at a conference middle of March this year, and it was very technology-focused, and I was speaking to a delegate at the end and said what would you say the message for the day was? He said,  I think the message has been, the last couple of years everyone’s been spending money hand over fist on AI, and this year the theme is what are we going to do with it? Neil, to get your thoughts, so in this world where there’s all of this technology about, has anyone quite worked out what it can do, can’t do?

Neil Grimes: Well, co-pilot is something that we’re involved with as well, and I was involved in one of the initial meetings on it. We were showed the demonstrations, how it would work. But to get the AI to work there was very specific ways of asking the AI to do this and do that. That’s all well and good, but that’s not the way we speak in the claims world. Take the swear words out, and we’re actually very plain spoken in what we do.

Mark: It’s a much smaller language model.

Neil Grimes: Much smaller language model, but also we work in one of the most abbreviated industries on earth, and I asked the questions, will the AI understand, will it tell us at the end of a document, by the way I didn’t understand any of this? They went no. So we would have to educate the AI on what all the abbreviations are. Even something as simple as PI, in the claims world that’s personal injury, in the broking world or underwriting world it’s professional indemnity, so it’s even down to that sort of level. So I think we still have a long way to go on it. It won’t replace people, but it will certainly help us when they get it right. But I think we’re at the infancy with it. I know they say it’s been around for a while, but I think for us in the broking world and the claims world, insurance world, it’s new, and I think it will have a place. There’s a lot of headspace, because you’re getting bombarded with emails all the time from people wanting to sell you their AI and do the tech. But, as Vic said, the collaboration now between the broking world and the insurance world to get it right is key, because we can come up with good ideas, it’s not a whingefest, we come up with positive and constructive ideas to help them, and the same coming from back the insurer.

Clare Laxy: I was just going to say, we’ve got quite a number of live gen-AI co-pilot tools, and one of them which helps handlers is, normally when a handler picks up a claim, they might not have the history on that claim. So we’ve got a note summarisation AI tool which reads, sometimes could be 40 pages of claims notes. And it summarises that for them. So what we’re seeing is that’s really helpful for handlers, because it’s speeding that ability to respond to the broker and the client quicker, and have a clearer understanding of the position that that claim’s in. We’ve got a couple of other tools that are in the pipeline, which is when you’re on the call with a client or a broker, afterwards it takes the handler quite a long time to wrap up that conversation and put the notes on the system. So we’re looking at a capability this year, which will do that through AI, and it’ll summarise the conversation for the claims notes. We’ve then got an external note capability that goes into track claim, and we’re looking at how do you transport that information so that the brokers are getting a view of that transcript of conversation as well. So there’s a few key things that we are definitely working on the gen-AI space that’s working effectively for us.

Mark: A lot of our conversation today has been around that technology piece, and what you’re all doing inside this space. I want to take a step back and look at some of the trends in claims at the moment. Ines, can I start with you, we hear a lot about things like fraud and rising costs as issues, are those just headlines, or is there real truth behind that, and what are some of the things that you can do as an insurer to help brokers and their clients?

Ines Wade: No, I wouldn’t say that. What we’re seeing at Aviva is that inflation is definitely having an impact on our customers, and our customers’ businesses as well. I think that profit for our customers is impacting them as a result of increased inflation, claims costs are increasing as well across the piece. So from that perspective, definitely we’re seeing that impact. What we’re also then seeing off the back of that is that as our customers are affected by that inflation, by that increased cost, we’re seeing an increase in opportunistic fraud, which is just an exaggeration of a claim for example. So we are seeing those increases throughout our book, which is why we are, we’ve consistently invested in our fraud proposition, and we’re market-leading on that, winning various awards as well. But what we do is very much focus on tech, tech helps us identify that fraud, as well as investing in our people capability, growing our teams, and making sure that we have, we’ve got some specific investigation teams as well that help us identify that fraud, and making sure that our clients’ claims are safe with us. That’s what I always say to our clients, is that your claims are safe with us, and we will make sure that we look after them and keep claims costs down.

Mark: But if you’re seeing claims coming in that, let’s be generous and say opportunistic rather than absolutely blatant fraud, how do you make a decision on, you think that’s a bit of a negotiating tactic, what’s the dividing line between that and thinking no this is absolutely wrong? Even if it is absolutely wrong, do you just say thanks, but we’re not paying out, or do you pick up the phone to the police and say, you know, there’s actually real crime going on here?

Ines Wade: So there are situations where there is organised crime that we will identify, and absolutely in those situations we will be working with the authorities to ensure that we pass on any information that we have. Whether it’s specific fraud rings or anything like that, and that’s been well-documented in the media as well where we have played our part in that. We will also take people to court if we have that evidence there as well that means that they have been dishonest. However, when it comes to just a claims negotiation, that’s very different, and that’s a claims negotiation, I wouldn’t call that fraud. So I think there are some specific things that we look at, and our investigations fraud team look at that, signify is it fraud or is it a claims negotiation?

Mark: Neil, I can see you want to come in there.

Neil Grimes: Fraud in the broker world is an interesting one, because we rely on the insurers for the fraud, but we’re also the first stop, the buffer before it gets into an insurer. Ten years ago, even 15 years ago, insurers never liked to prosecute on fraud, because it was bad PR for the insurer. I think as people’s premiums went up as a result of fraud, people wanted things done about it. So insurers have really got their act together in prosecuting, particularly the organised crime. The IFB do a great job, I think that’s helped to keep the fraud down in the Market. The technology that we use as well, also we can scan documents to see if they’ve been manipulated, photographs have been faked, edit reports being copied and pasted in. The tech is there, and it’s very good and it’s a great tool. So tech is not just about increasing, helping with the claims side and reducing lifecycles, it’s also targeting this area. And we’re big supporters of making sure that everything’s done right. Because fraud from a client, it’s not a case we’re saying our clients are engaged in fraud, but clients have fought against them, like in restaurants, people have trips and falls, and targeting commercial fleets with claims. So what we do as well with the clients, we alert them from all the information we get from the insurers, what for the clients to look out for themselves so fraud isn’t targeted at them directly.

Mark: Victoria, can I get your thoughts on that?

Victoria Sutton: Yes, we all have a responsibility to sniff out the fraud, and I think the fact that tech is helping that process to be more sophisticated I think helps us get the confidence of the clients. Because I think traditionally it would be like, oh an insurer’s trying to get out of paying my claim, of course I’m not fraudulent; whereas, now, actually it’s a real demonstration of well, one, this is how we find out about fraud, and, two, this is how it benefits you. Because at the end of the day it’s our clients that are all paying for fraud, and no one really wants it to happen, so I think actually what you’re doing in that space is really good. I think the media exposure really helps, because again it’s educating the client of insurers and brokers aren’t just doing things for the sake of doing things, there is a reason behind it, and then that improves the reputation of insurance as a whole.

Mark: Now, we’ve got about five minutes left, and I suppose in all of this we’ve talked a lot about the technology, but actually coming back to the people, and the training and the knowledge of the people in the system with insurers or at brokers. Victoria, right at the start you mentioned talent attraction in claims. So what can you as brokers do to attract people back to claims, and make sure they are the right people with the right training?

Victoria Sutton: I think it’s more actually what can we do as a claims industry as a whole? So I work quite a lot with I Love Claims, ILC Network, and it is, at the moment they’re doing a survey on what actually attracts people to claims and insurance, and do youngsters know about it? I think that’s going to be really eye-opening, the results of that survey, but what I would love to see off the back of it is actually us working together across the claims industry to go actually how can we attract talent? So is there potential that, work experience is really hard to support nowadays, because you can’t have access to a system, you can’t have IT equipment, so you can’t just come into an office and sit there for a week and see what claims is about. So actually is there more we can do as a team that actually two weeks a year we have claims experience weeks, where people can come, and they can meet all the suppliers, the different opportunities in claims. It’s not just coming in and being a claims handler, there’s opportunities. Restoration companies are crying out for carpentry specialists, things like that, and people don’t see that as an opportunity within insurance. So I think it’s, we just need to work together better on it, and see what we can do together.

Mark: Neil?

Neil Grimes: Yes, I completely agree. I think avoiding the nine to five at a desk is the key. So what we do is we send the claims staff out with adjusters onsite. We send them out to insurer meetings, to client meetings. Send them out with supply chains. Send them down to represent events like I Love Claims and other events. And it’s just to show them that there’s a lot more to what we do. We had a young person start with us and they said so you’re like detectives then. I said in a way that’s what we actually do, and really thrived on it. And that helps to retain the staff. What we do is, again when we get somebody new in the door, is each member of the team has got different skill levels, say whether it’s liability or cyber, they sit with them to show them what we do and how it works, see if they want to specialise in an area. The insurers are very good at helping us too, because they’ll do training sessions for us. We’ve got a team going down to your Solus Repair Network shortly, be shown around how it works. So I think working together we can give them a lot more opportunities outside of just the nine to five. I think in our day when we started, insurance and banking was a career, now it’s not seen like that. And we need to re-educate people that insurance is a good thing. I think we don’t shout enough about what we do and what we do well, 98.03% of all claims being submitted to insurers in 2024 that were settled were paid. That’s a figure that needs to be shouted about. People think we’re there to screw you over. And I think like at award ceremonies too, when we do our awards for our industry, it’s for all the good work we’ve done. You don’t see a category, and the nominations for the best way we declined a claim in 2024, you know, we need to shout more about what we do, and that might attract people into our trade.

Mark: Thank you. Ines, what are your thoughts around that, and particularly around industry standards, certifications, I don’t know, I’m an outsider, but what constitutes experienced in claims, is that a certificate, is that what your peer group think about you?

Ines Wade: No, I would say what is industry-leading for us is making sure that you are reacting to feedback from our brokers and our clients. So for me it is about continuously improving, and making sure that we’re reacting to the feedback that we’re being given, and at Aviva that’s one of the things that we do really well. Some of the things that we’ve put in place has been very much a direct impact on the feedback that we have had from our broker partners. So, for example, the file uploader that we recently put in place on our claims track, so various capabilities as well. The other thing I wanted to mention is our Solus apprenticeship scheme, because Neil just mentioned our Solus team, some of the great things that they do. They’re very much focused on bringing in that diversity of talent, and especially into the industry, because it’s an industry that needs investment, and our Solus team that is part of Aviva invests heavily in our youth, and works with our broker partners and various other suppliers as well to make sure that they deliver for our young people.

Mark: Clare, a final thought from you, obviously you’ve got the technology side and the claims bit.

Clare Laxy: Yeah, I think, so there is a challenge to bring talent in and retain talent. I think the other challenge is when you do hire, the speed to competency and how you get them to be qualified claims handlers. Some of the work, again to bring it back to technology and co-pilots in gen-AI, is about building these capabilities that help to assist them to reduce that speed to competency so that you have people that are coming in that are ready to go on the floor sooner to support your customers and the brokers. You know, across the commercial specifically, our speed to competency is about 12 to 18 months, so it’s a really long time, which is significant investment. So it’s about tools to support the handlers and provide them knowledge of when they need it within a claims journey. So I think that’s equally important as well as bringing in new talent.

Mark: What next for 2025?

Ines Wade: So at Aviva we’re really focused on our propositions in 2025, investing in our people, making sure that we invest, continue to invest in our propositions, so creating that visibility in the regions with our claims relationship leads, and continue to invest in technology and tool capability.

Mark: We have to leave it there, thank you. And thank you so much for watching. Do stay with us, we might have a bit of information coming up in just a second on how you can potentially use this as part of your CPD, if you’ve got CPD requirements. It just remains for me to thank our fantastic panellists here today. From Aviva we have Clare Laxy and Ines Wade. We’re also joined by Neil Grimes from the Clear Group and Victoria Sutton from Howden UK & Ireland. From all of us here, goodbye for now.

 

END OF INTERVIEW